Topic: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I assume most of you take a pill for some ailment or another, be it prescription or over-the counter.  I have been wanting to post this for awhile as a chapter in my life and as a warning to anyone out there who has just visited the doctor and got some pills and have no idea what they are.  Maybe you have been on it for years and been oblivious to the adverse effects.  In any case, I am compiling a list of some medicines to avoid.

Sedative Tranquilizers/Hypnotics

These are drugs that depress the central nervous systems and essentially calm you down.  They are usually prescribed for a short time for anxiety issues or stress but some people aquire a permanent prescription as I did (although my reasons are legitimate).  There are three main classes:

Benzodiazepines

Valium (diazepam)
Xanax (alprazolam)
Klonopin or Rivotril (clonazepam)
Ativan (lorazepam)
Basically any drug that ends in -pam -am or -zam are benzos.

They are highly addictive and you develop tolerance quickly.  Unlike many drugs, abrupt cessation of these medicines at higher doses can cause seizure and death.

Barbiturates

Luminal (phenobarbital)
Seconal (secobarbital)
Nembutal (pentobarbital)

These are basically phased out by benzos but are even more dangerous.  The therapeutic dose and the overdose are very close together...a matter of a few milligrams.

Z-Drugs

Ambien (zolpidem)
Imovane (zopiclone)
Lunesta (eszopiclone)

These are less dangerous but can still be habit forming and they work on the same part of the brain (GABA-A receptor) as benzo and barbs.

Opiate/Opioid Narcotics

Colloquially known as "pain killers," these drugs can cause more pain than releif in the long run.  Addiction and/or tolerance develops rapidly and withdrawal is expeience upon abrupt cessation.

Percocet (oxycodone/acetaminophen)
Percodan (oxycodone/ASA)
Vicodin/Lortab (hydrocodone)
Dilaudid (hydromorphone)
OxyContin (oxycodone-pure)
Hydromorph Contin/Palladone (hydromorphone SR)
MS Contin (morphine)
Darvon/Darvocet (propoxyphene)
Dihydrocodeine (DF-118)
Codeine (includes Tylenol 1 2 3 and 4)
Talwin (pentazocine)
Methadone
Tamadol
Suboxone/Subutex (buprenorphine)
and more

These drugs will KILL YOU at high enough doses.

Amphetamines

Also known as "kiddy-coke" these ADHD and narcolepsy pills can be addictive and cause CNS stimulation high enough for a heart attack or hypertensive crisis.

Ritalin (methylphenidate)
Dexedrine (dextro-amphetamine)
Adderal (dextro/levo amphetamine racemic mixture)
Desoxyn (methamphetamine pharmaceutical)

More to come.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

OTC Meds to Watch Out For:

Benadryl - too high a dose can lead to a delerious state where hallucinations are indistinguishable from reality.
Gravol/Dramamine - same problem
NyQuil - same problem
Doxylamine Succinate -same
Cyclizine - same

Tylenol #1 OTC - a codeine containing prepatation that is cheap, legal, and highly addictive
A. C. & C. - ASA plus codeine
222 - ASA plus codeine
Panafen Plus - high dose OTC codeine
Tussinex - high dose codeine sometimes available over the counter on pharmacists temp. script
Prometh plus codeine - see above, aka sizzurp

Dextromethorphan - also known as DXM.  Legal and available in almost every cough liquid, high doses cause dissociation and hallucinations.  Deadly when combined with certain antidepressants.

All of these are legal (in canada) and available OTC.  They can be easily misused and all pose serious risks.  READ THE LABEL!

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Interestingly enough, the medicine Kelly was prescribed a while back for a viral sickness we both got was, according to her mom (she makes the medical testing equipment, I guess, I just know she knows pharmaceuticals more than anyone should), a third of the way to making cocaine...

Yah, the doctor told her not to take it before bed, since it's been known to keep people up. Kelly ignored it, of course, and didn't get to sleep till 4pm that night.

I just got some medicine for migraines, since I started getting them A LOT more this year (I had about 14 in January alone...) and all I know is that it's some pain killer that starts with "But-" and then aspirin and caffeine. Still haven't taken it... I'm the kind of person that has multiple full bottles of vicodin that I got from various things and never took.

Kelly on the other hand has about 4 pills she has to take daily, for her stomach and ovaries... Not envious of that. Also glad I don't have ovaries, they seem like bitches.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Oh hey, I found it... The drug is Fiorinal and it has Butalbital in it. Apparently it's very addictive and shouldn't be taken with alcohol? Be nice for the doctor to tell me that...

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I went through my phase of pills in high school.

Hydro's were my pill of choice, never really cared for Xanax.

Though I did like Klonopin, and as far as syrups go, I looooved Hydrotussin. Think codein and premethazyne, except it's Robotussin and Hyrdocodone, much better.

Yeah, I learned a lot about pills during that time. Then I kind of just snapped out of it. At the time though, I was taking 3-4, sometimes five 12.5MG hydro's every day.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Man, your liver has to be shit Erik.

Here's hoping for affordable robotic livers in our lifetime's!

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Yeah it's probably not in the best of shape. I don't drink as much as I did when I was living on my own in Little Rock, but I generally have a couple beers every day.

Usually at night before I go to bed and I'm finishing up forums, I'll go ahead and have a couple then go to sleep.

For a while I was close to a 12'er a night, at a minimum. Don't really know how I made it through all that... Hazy times.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I do know anything over 2 drink equivalents per day causes liver damage in an adult male, so like 4oz of wine is one drink, 1 shot of 80 proof alcohol, 16 ounces of 5%(I think?) beer count as one drink. It doesn't add up either, so you can't just drink 14 drinks at the end of the week.

I usually try to drink no more than 2 beers in a night if I drink, but I don't always do that.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Yeah, mainly I quit drinking during the week because I wasn't getting anything done for school.

When I lived on my own, and all I did was have to work, I didn't really care. I also didn't have to be at work until noon, so that played a part in it, too.

It's also expensive.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I take benedryl to sleep sometimes. The dose required to halucinate is way higher (10x or more) than the average dose.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

And then you're going to sleep for five days afterwards, haha.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

doxylamine (unisom) and diphenhydramine (benedryl) are decent for getting you to fall asleep, but they make you feel sort of shitty the next morning. Kind of like a hangover without the nausea. A little bit of caffeine fixes it right up, I've found that doxylamine is more effective and less habit forming but neither are recommended.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Sometimes I take one diphenhydramine (25 mg) before bed.

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"I even get my age wrong sometimes."  -CheesyBread

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

That's all great, just a warning to never get frustrated and take more than you should.

Erik, don't ever take that poison again.  It's just a stepping stone to something worse.  I know.

Alex, if you ever need to take you Fiorinal you should do so on a VERY sporadic basis. There are far better migraine medicines out there that don't contain deadly barbiturates (barbs killed elvis, jimi hendrix, marilyn monroe, and more).  Try asking the doc for Immitrex or Zomeg.  No risks with those and they are not addictive.  Again, barbiturates are the devil.  My mother took them back in the day when benzos hadn't totally replaced them and she went completely looney toons.

I take Klonopin every day and I'm basically doomed to do so for the rest of my life.  It's not cool, although I'm in no real danger since I do require it to balance my anxiety and I have a shrink with a good writing arm.  He insists I stay on it because to withdraw would pose too much of  risk of seizure/death.  I'd have to be re-admitted to detox which I will never do again.  Twice is enough for me.

Before I got into OxyContin and Dilaudid I started off taking Tylenol with codeine and Tylenol 3's etc.  They may seem harmless and they are admittedly a weak opiate...but when they stop working some people have the type of addictive personality to go searching for something stronger.  Withdrawal is a bitch and opiates will eventually kill you.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

It's funny, it's been years since I've even thought about taking pills.

But every now and then I have no problem with ecstacy, and I find that hilarious, because it makes you feel like nothing else ever can, yet it's not addictive at all.

Though it has been 6+ months since I've had it, but you know what I'm saying.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

X isn't physically addictive but I know some guys who used to roll every day on a regular basis fo years.  Some of them turned out just fine and were neve changed, others went through a deep depression and eventually came out of it.  One or two of them have never been the same since.  It acts so strongly on your serotonin system that you're rolling the dice with your mental health if you take it habitually.  Make sure you're not the first one to take a new brand of pill and test it with a home kit of possible...that's if you must take it ever.

BTW I'm not here to preach, just to spread awareness.  I can't say anything about drug use.  I'm a recovering addict but I still smoke weed several times daily and drink on a weekly basis.  I need not go into my smoking and coffee drink as that's covered in my espresso thread. Hehe...be safe bud.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

You know a lot about this stuff.

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"I even get my age wrong sometimes."  -CheesyBread

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Thanks, it comes with the territory, some might say.  But I categorize drug users as being in one of two classes: Mad Scientists and Sheeps to Slaughter.  Mad scientists research the hell out of the drugs they take and are very aware of substance interactions, dosage, chemical properties, contraindications, chemical potentiators, and basically how a drug will affect the brain and why someone feels a different effect or "high" from a different drug.  Sheeps to slaughter are people who will blow a line of anything without asking what it is, take any old handful of pills, recklessly use IV drugs (i.e. sharing needles, re-using needles, not being sanitary...although IV use is in itself reckless in my opinion.  I have never shot up) and combining drugs that can have potentially devastating effects.

Not that there is a huge difference in the eventual outcome of their career as a psychonaut...even the mad scientist can fuck up.  I did, and I researched the bejesus out of anything I ever took, and made damn well sure that nothing bad would happen.  Something bad eventually happened.

I'm certainly not here to say "drugs are bad mmkay," but with the surge of the oxycodone epidemic in my area and that surge having affected my life for five years, I am kinda trying to speak out against this rising problem of prescription drug abuse.  I do not agree with the war on drugs.  People are going to get heroin into this country because there is demand and there is huge money involved.  The government will never stop that.  Illegal or not the crackheads want their crack and the pillheads want their pills, but the government "controls" the distribution of prescription drugs.  Why is it that all of these heavy narcotics meant for people in extreme pain or terminally ill cancer and AIDS patients end up on the street?  Sure, it's to be expected that there will be some leakage with a drug that has euphoric and addictive properties, but I'd say that a HUGE chunk of the people who get scripts for opiate painkillers or benzos in my area only fill the scripts to sell them on the street.

Scenario: You have been diagnosed with let's say...fibromyalgia.  You have a lot of pain and need pain medication legitimately.  You go to the doctor and he scripts you oxycontin 40 mg pills to be taken 3 times daily.  After getting to know the effect of the drug, you realize that you only need one of these pills in the morning to kill your pain all day.  Let's say even 2.

You have Blue Cross insurance so you only pay 5 dollars (or nothing) for the prescription.  Or you have no plan and pay about 2 or 3 dollars per pill.  So these extra pills are piling up but you continue to fill the script.  Then a buddy notices you taking one and tells you that they are worth serious cash on the streets and offers to buy the pill that you just payed maybe 2 or 3 dollars for (or free) for 40 dollars (oxy runs about 1 dollar per milligram).  Add that up over a month.  It's a salary in itself.

BTW most addicts need 80-160 or more mg to get an effect when they have tolerance.  They will need this every day.  It's an expensive addiction.  I've pissed away tens of thousands.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

CheesyBread wrote:

Alex, if you ever need to take you Fiorinal you should do so on a VERY sporadic basis. There are far better migraine medicines out there that don't contain deadly barbiturates (barbs killed elvis, jimi hendrix, marilyn monroe, and more).  Try asking the doc for Immitrex or Zomeg.  No risks with those and they are not addictive.  Again, barbiturates are the devil.  My mother took them back in the day when benzos hadn't totally replaced them and she went completely looney toons.

Immitrex is great, and works great, but I can't afford it. I only have Fiornal as a rescue drug, meaning if I can't ditch out on my day and have a migraine, then I am supposed to take it.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

And you should because you seem really responsible about it.  If you leave full bottles of hydro in your cupboard and forget about them then fiorinal is nothing to worry about.  I would flush those hydros though.  People get robbed over that shit.

Or sell 'em for big bucks if you have the heart and unsavoury accquaintances to do so.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Speaking of my new medicine, I just got a migraine at work, er, started getting one. Lets hope it works.

This migraine is weird to begin with though... Usually my vision goes wonky and then one side of my body slowly goes numb, then the headache, with me generally out of it the whole time.

This time, one finger instantly went numb and then quickly spread across my whole left side (It's weird to type when you can't feel one hand, BTW. I'm making tons of mistakes I have to correct.) I'm a little out of it, but my vision seems fine, and the headache is only faintly there. I have no idea how long before the medicine kicks in or what it feels like, so the last 3 hours at work should be interesting. I don't even know if I'll notice the medicine, just because this migraine is so different to begin with.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I feel pretty weird right now, so I decided I deserve a cheeseburger.

Yes, I can haz cheezburger!

As a side note, it's great having a job where I can tell my boss I'm leaving with no indication of when I'll come back, and even that is a courtesy, so he doesn't have to wonder where I went. You should all get a job like this.

Now if only I could play videogames at work too...

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Play WoW on your work computer.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Oh, computers aren't a problem, I bring my own laptop to use for work tasks, because then I can play my own music over the speakers and I have my browser/bookmarks to browse the websites I want to (like this!) the only two things they don't let me do, though, is go to Facebook/MySpace (which, let's be honest, I could care less) and play video games.

I did get to play WoW once, when a customer was complaining he was having problems when playing it. It just turned out he fucked up his video settings. I could play and hide it, but that's just too much effort. I'm ususally the only one at the tech area, but people constantly walk through and stop to ask tech questions, so yah.

I have gotten away with playing games on my iPhone, though. My boss got mad at me for playing Civilization on it, only because I was making him want to do the same and he didn't have free time.

Right now I'm removing viruses from two PCs, so moat of it is letting computers run, which is why I can go get a cheeseburger and it doesn't matter. Technically I have a diagnostic appointment 3 minutes ago, but I already started it, and have 2 hours longer to work on it.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Do you feel sedated when you take it?  Just one capsule shouldn't make you out of it...but then again a soda gets you high, alex.

I personally never felt a thing from fiorinal.  You can get ones with codeine in them and I bought those a few times but the dose I needed to take for the codeine made the butalbital put me to sleep.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I'm not convinced it's the medicine making me feel weird, it's more likely the migraine. My left side still feels numb, off and on, and I'm normally pretty out of it when I have a migraine.

The good news is that, whether because this migraine was different or the medicine, I don't have a headache and I feel (physically) mostly normal, and mentally good enough to do my job.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

That's good.  That must suck so bad to get migraines.  I've never had one but I've seen people suffer with them and they are basically incapable or doing anything.  Couldn't get up to piss if they wanted to.  My mother once stayed in bed with the lights off with no food, little sleep, and a bottle each of asprin and tylenol for a week before she could even look at daylight again.  I'm sorry for your ailment.

It's terrible that Immitex is too expensive.  They should really release a generic version of it, as I've heard they work really well.  Ever thought about beta blockers?  They're cheap and indicated for some migraine sufferers.

...And a pint of Guinness

Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

I guess Imitrex did release a generic version, and that is the $200 one. It used to be much more expensive, but I also used to have insurance. I hear you can only get 8 pills per month now, too.

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Re: A Warning to Everyone About Pharmaceuticals

Ridiculous.

My meds cost me (my mother actually) over 300 dollars per months.

You have your Klonopin which is 20 bucks for 60 tabs a month (good n cheap)

You have your Lexapro which is $166 for 30 tabs.

You have your Singulair which is 177 dollars for 30 tabs.

So yeah...I'm fucked.  Also, all of those meds require a slooow taper...so if I can't afford them I basically check into the emergency room.

...And a pint of Guinness